Jesse Bosch - Start-ups, Leadership and Marketing through HR

I’ve been following Jesse Bosch’s career over the years and have been fascinated by his energy and drive.

Jesse is the CEO of Interview Me, a new digital startup that provides a video interview platform to assist in fast-tracking recruitment, and improving culture fit and diversity.

https://interviewme.tech/ - CHECK IT OUT!!

Jesse has also been hugely successful working in roles like sales manager, MD, General Manager, Head of Sales and Sales Director and has worked for incredible companies including Mercedes Benz and Meltwater.

Plus, don’t forget, he went to school with me so that adds a few credits on his CV too! Hahaha!

I had so much fun with this conversation and I hope you do too.

As always, like, follow, subscribe and share, share, share!

Transcript

Pink podcasts - Jesse Bosch

Kirsten Maarschalk: [00:00:00] [00:01:00] Jesse, thank you so much for joining me on my Pink podcasts. It's so cool to have you on my show. 

Jesse Bosch: Thank you so much for having me who would have known? School days, and now we bump in here? 

Kirsten Maarschalk: And I was actually thinking today, who would have known that Edenglen High was like a breeding ground for entrepreneurs. 

Jesse Bosch: Yes, I hope

Jesse Bosch: there's a lot more, I mean, I've chatted to a couple of guys and a couple of guys are doing really well. So, I mean, it's super cool for you to be doing this. And in terms of just your business in general, I think you've got some cool stuff happening with inside pink soda. So excited for the chat 

Kirsten Maarschalk: yeah, thanks Jess.

Kirsten Maarschalk: So I wanted to chat to you today. Um, a bit about entrepreneurship because it's a lot of what I focus my content on, and I think it's so relevant. [00:02:00] Um, the market for entrepreneurship, I think, especially in South Africa is growing. We're trying to promote more people to, you know, startup opportunities and, and create employment for other people.

Kirsten Maarschalk: And it's also just such a fun space to be in. I don't know how you feel, but I've absolutely loved my journey as an entrepreneur. And it seems like you have as well. I know you've, you've got to start it, but what has your journey been like? Is this your first kind of path into entrepreneurship or what's your background?

Jesse Bosch: Yeah, absolutely. So one number one. It's it's super cool, but super scary in the same breath. Um, I won't lie, but I think. Um, I, I try to start a business when I was 24. Um, I wanted to open up a guitar business where I would actually import guitars, that people could actually build themselves and paint and design, and that I've got a big passion for music, but I ended up finding myself, having a couple of braais, too many tequilas and handing guitars out for free, as opposed to selling them and quickly realized that this was not a good business model [00:03:00] for me and kinda just pulled the handbrake on it. Um, but interview me is obviously the first proper business that we've started up. Um, it's been, uh, an exciting, but yet scary journey leaving a secure job. I had a really good job as well before, and really just taking the leap. Um, I was having a good conversation with someone last week about like, how did you just do it?

Jesse Bosch: And I said like, I almost had to say, well, if not now, when you know, and just decided to take the leap, I was fortunate to, to have what I am fortunate to have a good business partner, which from a finance perspective has really backed me. Um, in terms of this dream that I had of, of interview me and having my own business.

Jesse Bosch: But in saying that, you know, whether you've got someone backing you financially or not, you still have put a lot of pressure on yourself to make this thing work. And it's not like it's just this bottom there's puts of money that you have forever and you can kind of just go with the flow. Um, so it's been a lot of [00:04:00] late nights.

Jesse Bosch: A lot of preparing, working with almost a nonexisting marketing budget and trying to get people into this whole new mindset in terms of how to do things differently. It's challenging and people are resistant to change in most cases. I mean, it's super exciting when I chat to people that are like, yes, please talk to me.

Jesse Bosch: This is super cool. But when you chat to people and they're like, no, thanks. We've got something in place. You know, the traditional things it's frustrating for me because. I get where they're coming from with it. Like if it ain't broke, don't fix it. But at the same time, if we can streamline and do things better, then just give me the time of day.

Jesse Bosch: So it's, it's been an incredibly exciting journey. We've we've literally just signed for new offices, which are moving to next week on Tuesday, massive offices. We pretty much only launched on the 1st of October last year, although it had been about a year in development and we've already got 12 people, uh, and it's probably going to grow by another four or [00:05:00] five in the next month or so, so there's a lot going on, but I know I'd probably would be waffled a little bit there, but I can't really give it to you in like two or three words and say, yeah, exciting, scary, fun, because there's just so many emotions attached to it.

Jesse Bosch: But I would say that it's one of the most. I'm more excited about this move than any other move. Um, I actually had a job offer three days ago, offering me triple the amount of money that I used to earn, and I turned it down just because I'm so passionate about what we're about to achieve. 

Kirsten Maarschalk: Well that's what I was going to say, I can so relate, you know, there is so much passion and maybe that's the driving force.

Kirsten Maarschalk: Maybe that's really the, the match that hits the fire or that creates a fire. You know, it's like, You, you have this, this burning desire to make something happen and you so passionate about it. And then it eventually just overflows and you pull the trigger and you take action. Because that is the scariest part I think is, is just that taking the plunge to say, you know what, I'm going to put it all in and, take the risk [00:06:00] and make it happen.

Kirsten Maarschalk: And that's where a lot of people get stuck. So that brings me to my next question, because you kind of like touching on it now is Some people say it takes a certain kind of person, like a set of characteristics to start your own business, because you've got to be a bit of a risk taker. And like you're saying with your clients, you know, they are hesitant to, to change up things and change the legacy way of thinking because that's been safe for them and, you know, they don't want to take a risk.

Kirsten Maarschalk: So do you think that it is a personality trait thing? Or do you think that anybody could be an entrepreneur? 

Jesse Bosch: I genuinely think that anybody can be an entrepreneur,, I think in terms of how they approach their in entrepreneur, I guess journey could differ to one that is very outspoken and, you know, in your face and I'm considered an extrovert, but I think.

Jesse Bosch: Anyone that has just a passion for what they want to do. And if they genuinely believe that they're solving a [00:07:00] problem, I think anyone can don't believe that it's associated to a specific characteristic. And sometimes, you know, taking risks is, is risky. I mean, like, I mean, I don't, for lack of a better word, you know, and some people might need to be a little bit more calculated because they have a lot more to lose.

Jesse Bosch: Um, I do think that. People that continuously play the risk over and over in their head, perhaps that could stifle what they're wanting to achieve. Um, but maybe you can be a little bit more calculated in your approach and still become a really good entrepreneur. It might just take you a little bit longer, may even not, maybe once you've decided that you've calculated all these things and you put specific measures in place, and it takes off.

Jesse Bosch: Um, I guess that's really dependent on your personality. I'm one of those guys where it's in my mind, I can't sleep at my two o'clock three o'clock in the morning. I'm writing ideas on my phone and when to do it. And I guess there's a lot of people out there that are like, Um, so I don't necessarily believe that being an entrepreneur is [00:08:00] associated to a specific characteristic.

Jesse Bosch: I think anybody can do it provided that they are super passionate about what they want to do. And in terms of how they approach that, obviously that's entirely up to them. Yeah. 

Kirsten Maarschalk: Yeah. I think you're right. Um, I think potentially certain personalities will be able to take the risk a bit quicker and like go for it.

Kirsten Maarschalk: And some people, like you say, might have to be a bit more calculated. Um, I think what's exciting about. And flipping daunting at the same time. It's like, it's a constant gamble. That's how I feel. I mean, I've been on my own for four years now, you know, hustling, trying to make things happen, Pink Soda it has been registered for three years and that gamble and that hustle and that risk never goes away.

Kirsten Maarschalk: I actually feel like it just gets bigger and bigger because now, like for both of us, there's staff involved, you've gotta make sure you can pay everyone's salaries. You've got to make sure you keep everyone happy. Um, so, so yeah, I guess you've, you've got to kind of. like, be prepared to take on that risk and be ready for it and just go with it.

Kirsten Maarschalk: You've got to [00:09:00] actually just like have full faith in yourself and your decisions and make it happen. 

Jesse Bosch: I think having those added responsibilities exactly. Like you said, offices, staff that have families that they need to pay and support. I think that gives you an additional, bit of drive in terms of, you know, that you can't just go and have a kip on the couch because you're over it.

Jesse Bosch: You've got to get things happening, right. Um, You know, many of people, once they get to the stage of OK I'm not going to do this. And they bring them to the top. They know that Friday at two o'clock is not beer o'clock anymore. It's we need to do whatever it takes to make this happen. And if you look at so many different in entrepreneur stories, I mean, the guys from Buy Two Shoes, I follow the guys quite frequently, and he's selling shoes out of his back of his car for for years. Um, and then, you know, progress and that is just hard graft and grit. And I think, you know, the things that are coming to mind for me, it was specific word is perhaps stamina, [00:10:00] um, where you've gotta be able to push through the tough times.

Jesse Bosch: You've got to know that like you're going to get a million nos and whatever. It doesn't matter how many of those no's you're going to get, you need to keep pushing because it's not just you, that you're thinking about anymore, somebody else as well. So I think that actually motivates people to work even harder and make things happen.

Jesse Bosch: And I truly believe in hard work gets 

Kirsten Maarschalk: results. Yeah. No doubt. So on the note of, of having teams and like you said, your team is growing and has grown pretty rapidly, which is amazing Jess, well done. What, what is important to you as a leader? Like what do you think? What do you, what do you value in yourself as a leader and what do you think people should strive for in leadership?

Jesse Bosch: People tend to have an well, I'm assuming just from what I've experienced in the parties, they traditionally have a blanket approach when it comes to managing their staff. And I think [00:11:00] empathy is is a word that kind of pops into my mind where you've got a one be empathetic with your clients. With two, you've got to be empathetic with your staff.

Jesse Bosch: Your staff are real people and having regular one-on-ones and actually listening to your colleagues and really understanding what they're going through in perhaps what challenges, because for example, in a sales environment, you'll see someone that's not performing from a sales perspective and most managers will say, not phoning enough.

Jesse Bosch: You're not, you know, cold calling and prospecting. Your closing techniques may suck or whatever it may be. And that may not necessarily be the issue. And I think if you, if you really spent time with your staff and understand, and then create a roadmap and really hold your staff's hand in that journey. And I don't mean like, you know, you need to baby them and like, not just watch every , but nine out of 10 times your colleagues actually have the answers to the questions that they ask you as the [00:12:00] manager.

Jesse Bosch: And I think reinforcing that confidence that they actually have the answers and because once you get your team to do what you want them to do that they're typically doing it because you've asked them to do it. Where if you flip it back onto them, they feel like they're empowered and in control of that journey and you tend to find them succeed and thrive off of those types of things.

Jesse Bosch: And I think, you know, for me, that's super important. And then also having a winning culture spend 80% of your time at graft. The last thing you want to do is come into a sad, dull 8 to 5 in environment because that's personally how I feel, maybe other people enjoy those kinds of vibes. But for my team specifically, we're all about celebrating the victories high-fives all round, you know, we make a lot of noise, but we also, so I mean, if I have to break up culture, down in to three things, I'd say it's fun, winners and respect.

Jesse Bosch: We have a lot of fun. We [00:13:00] hate losing and we make sure that we respect everyone on a professional level and a personal level. 

Kirsten Maarschalk: A hundred percent I was actually having a conversation with someone today about respect. And I suppose you could include empathy in that as well as is, you know, whether it be in communication with your staff or with your clients, for me, like it's a human to human transaction and that's what people tend to forget in the business world.

Kirsten Maarschalk: So approaching your staff with empathy doesn't mean you need to be a pushover and be like super soft and gentle. And like you say, don't need to spoonfeed them, but it's a matter of like understanding and constantly going back and going, okay, well, why could this person have behaved that way where can I support them to make sure that this doesn't happen.

Kirsten Maarschalk: Maybe they're not as skilled as I am. Maybe they have a different mindset about it. Maybe I didn't communicate clearly. And once you've ticked all those boxes, you have a different approach to take. And I think it comes down to mutual respect to exactly like we say, With clients and with staff, , you need to see the human in each other.

Kirsten Maarschalk: And I think as a leader, [00:14:00] very much what you're saying as well is that trusting is so key to be able to say like, you know what, you are a part of this business, as much as I am. , I want you to feel skin in the game. And, , I believe that you can do X, Y, and Z, and then they are empowered and they do feel a part of the bigger picture.

Jesse Bosch: Yeah, 

Kirsten Maarschalk: you mentioned just now. Sorry, Jess, carry on. 

Jesse Bosch: Yeah, no, no, no, no. 

Jesse Bosch: I can tend to ramble days. I'm a sales person by nature. So rather cut me off. 

Kirsten Maarschalk: This happens in every single podcast I do, by the way, because I'm also a rambler. I'm a fill the gap kind of person I always have something to say.

Kirsten Maarschalk: Um, you mentioned just now about culture and I think it's so key. So from a marketing perspective, we've noticed that a lot of marketing is based on culture, right? People are not buying into brands because of their logo or their shiny products. They buy into brands because of the culture behind the product.

Kirsten Maarschalk: So if you think of brand like [00:15:00] Nike of, um, Now they'll all go out of my head, of course, but there's like all the major brands people buy into that lifestyle. Even your luxury brands, you're not buying Nike okay, fine. They've got superior running shoes, but before you get to try the shoe on you're sold on the story, you're sold on what they say on how they treat their staff.

Kirsten Maarschalk: If you follow pages like that on LinkedIn, like you buy into that story, you know, um, And that's where I think that marketing and HR actually have a very, very similar role, but on different sides of the fence. So where marketing is promoting culture, externally HR promotes culture internally. And I think that that's quite an interesting synergy.

Kirsten Maarschalk: I don't know what your thoughts are on that? 

Jesse Bosch: Yeah. I mean, it's, it's quite cool. So I've been very fortunate for every other job that I've had prior to, to interview me. Companies had really good cultures. Um, I've had one job where it was not so good. Try'd to install a new culture, but I mean, that was more of an old school [00:16:00] mentality, but the rest of the jobs that I've had had really good cultures.

Jesse Bosch: So exactly like you've said, so this company solves this vision, like a Google cool furniture it's a vibe, you know, four day, weeks, whatever it may be. Um, and I think the hiring process is so critical for that, because if you're selling this culture and this vision for people to come in, and then you've got someone that completely clashes with that vision.

Jesse Bosch: What could be a good culture can turn into quite a terrible culture very quickly. Uh, I use the rotten apple example and I was actually that rotten apple one stage in my career where I was having bad sales weeks, bad months I was missing target. And what happened was we had a really good vibe in the office and I found myself.

Jesse Bosch: wining no one wants to talk to me. No one wants to buy. Am I bad at sales? Is this the job for me? And the people that I was [00:17:00] talking to were having to empathize with me and saying "Yeah, don't worry about it, Jess" and "I'm also having a bad time." And the next minute everyone was having a bad time. I had just like infected them with my negativity.

Jesse Bosch: And I was like, I need to snap out of it. My managing director at the time said, you got to reign it in there mate. Like you, we need to get you out of it. Took me out for a beer. We had a few high fives we strategize with like, how do we get out of this rut? And the interview? The hiring process is crucial for that because if you're setting this idea and the person that you're hiring, doesn't buy into that idea or doesn't perhaps

Jesse Bosch: look and feel like the way that you want them to be for that culture. Then it's probably not a good idea to, to bring that person into your business because you maybe skilled enough to do the job, but if you don't necessarily gel well with that team and the vision of the company, one, you may damage it, but you also may not.

Jesse Bosch: [00:18:00] Necessarily succeed in that role because you feel like a misfit and very much out of place. And it's actually quite cool with our platform. Interview me. We've added a video video element to the CV and we're like, get to know the person behind the CV. And a lot of people say, yeah, but I see the CV. I know what they're doing.

Jesse Bosch: I'm like, yeah, but that's not the person you're not communicating with them. You don't understand who they are, what they're about, what they like, what they don't like.. If you're an introvert and extrovert, um, and our platform obviously helps identify that, but it does very much. HR and marketing have very much. Like a close relationship in my eyes, because exactly what you say.

Kirsten Maarschalk: Yeah. It's about focusing on the people, you know, within the brand. Um, and I think it is, it's a very tricky task to identify culture fit. , and it's not necessarily that you need to have all your staff be the same type of person. It's just like, how did they align with our values? You know, do they match.

Kirsten Maarschalk: , with our, our ethics, with [00:19:00] our vibe, with our, yeah, I think it mostly comes down to value. But what I love about your platform as well as obviously like the video interview as a service thing is, is super cool because it's such a good way to just shortcut that recruitment process. But I also love that it's an opportunity for companies to market themselves almost on an internal marketing basis.

Kirsten Maarschalk: And I think this is where a lot of companies, forget about it. When you are putting out a position, however, you are advertising your position, you are attracting talent, or you are trying to attract talent, and you want people to be able to understand what your company is like. So the look and feel of your company, how you've written out your ad, and it's such an opportunity to get people to buy in because you're getting exposure in that advert to how many different people, whether they are your correct hire or not.

Kirsten Maarschalk: They're going to come on , and , you want them to say, oh, this is the kind of company I want to work for. This is such a cool company. And if they're not successful, you want them to still feel like that was a cool [00:20:00] brand to interact with. 

Jesse Bosch: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, we, we, when we both interviewed me one, we needed to make sure that the user journey for candidates was super easy because that's important for us.

Jesse Bosch: Right. Um, and I think there's two sides. One is the company that's using our platform can really brand our platform, according to their colors and put cool enticing YouTube videos in terms of why you should work for us and all of that. But I think my focus is even as equally as it is with our clients, it's with the candidates, I feel like so many.

Jesse Bosch: Good candidates have been missed. And I think when candidates now realized that the hiring company is giving the candidate the ability to put the best foot forward, the candidate automatically has a better perception around the brand that's giving them the opportunity to be interviewed up front. As opposed to just ending up being another CV on a table.

Jesse Bosch: Um, and I think that for [00:21:00] me, does even more good for the brand reputation of the hiring company, then what it looks and feels like from an ad perspective, because they're like, wow, these people actually want to know who we are, as opposed to just being another CV. And the word of mouth of that is incredibly strong.

Jesse Bosch: And I think for me, If we can start educating our clients in terms of, Hey, hold on. This is what we could actually do for your indirectly, without having to spend any extra money on marketing, which is obviously important, but just that in itself is a, I dunno, it just a different way of sewing candidates.

Jesse Bosch: The people that are out there, that the corporate cares. 

Kirsten Maarschalk: Yeah. And I mean, we spoke just now about, that legacy mindset with a lot of people not being open to change. Do you think that there is a shift? Like I do start to see a lot of breakdowns in traditional corporate, communications and, , again, from a marketing perspective, something as simple as copy on a website, it's like, let's not write

Kirsten Maarschalk: [00:22:00] your website in this super formal, super technical way, because people are very lazy to read firstly, and the message doesn't sink in. Let's write it as you would speak it, you know, let's make it a little bit more casual and it also picks up on the brand's personality. Um, do you think that the same types of things are happening in, in your space and in other spaces when it comes to recruitment and those sorts of things?

Jesse Bosch: There's definitely a shift in the mindset. The problem is I think your smaller to medium organizations are really taking that by the horns they're trying to work out new efficient ways of doing things and are all for trying to be different, which is super cool. I think the larger corporates a lot more red tape

Jesse Bosch: more people to, you know, from a user adoption perspective and that more people to deal with and engage with. And there's, you know, it's like too many chefs in the kitchen. There's a lot of people that have a lot of different opinions about certain things. And I think it's challenging, but [00:23:00] Hey, you know, That's okay.

Jesse Bosch: We, you know, it's not like a one size fits all, but I definitely think that there's a shift and it's super cool to sit in the small to medium organizations, because I ultimately believe those are the guys that are going to be the future of South Africa. And then we want to exactly, although we want to end the big fry, I think small businesses are equally important.

Jesse Bosch: And I think those are the guys that had been in my mind. Most susceptible to change and open to it. I think that's super cool. So when we chat to the smaller guys, they're like, oh, this is amazing. We love it. Um, and you know, you're, as you said, you know, they they're doing cool, funky websites, very simple, but super fun.

Jesse Bosch: And I guess, engaging. Um, so yes, I do believe there's a shift. I don't think it's happening as quick as I'd obviously like it to, but I think it's definitely happening. 

Kirsten Maarschalk: Yeah, and I love it. I must say, like, I love the direction that things are going in, in business at the moment. Um, with, with everything just being like a [00:24:00] little bit less serious and I hope it continues that way.

Kirsten Maarschalk: I mean, for heaven sake, I've got pink hair you're covered in tattoos, so things are changing up and I love it. And yeah, Jess well done on being one of those game-changers to introduce something new and innovative. I think what you're doing is amazing and I can't wait to see more. 

Jesse Bosch: Thank you so much, Kirsten.

Jesse Bosch: And likewise, with your good luck with the team, I know that you think some cool stuff, you've done some branding and work for us already, which has been epic. We've send it onto clients and they're like, wow, this is super cool. So thank you very much for the help with that as well. Um, we'd probably gonna use you for a lot more stuff.

Kirsten Maarschalk: Awesome. I'm looking forward to that and you'd better have me over at your new office for coffee soon. 

Jesse Bosch: It's in Greenstone obviously, obviously

Kirsten Maarschalk: also. Thank you so much.

[00:25:00]